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	<title>Comments on: Just How Special Is an Elite Education?</title>
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	<description>Mike Turitzin&#039;s essays and articles</description>
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		<title>By: miketuritzin</title>
		<link>http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/just-how-special-is-an-elite-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2118</link>
		<dc:creator>miketuritzin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/?p=735#comment-2118</guid>
		<description>Fair enough. But it&#039;s hard to say much about the world without making generalizations. That&#039;s what we humans are good at -- noticing patterns and using them to help us understand things :) (Almost) all generalizations will be wrong some of the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough. But it&#8217;s hard to say much about the world without making generalizations. That&#8217;s what we humans are good at &#8212; noticing patterns and using them to help us understand things <img src='http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  (Almost) all generalizations will be wrong some of the time.</p>
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		<title>By: zuzf</title>
		<link>http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/just-how-special-is-an-elite-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2117</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/?p=735#comment-2117</guid>
		<description>I definitely agree with &quot;An elite education is great for some things (see above) but not-so-great for others.&quot; My reaction has been mainly to generalizations, I tend to be suspicious of those.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely agree with &#8220;An elite education is great for some things (see above) but not-so-great for others.&#8221; My reaction has been mainly to generalizations, I tend to be suspicious of those.</p>
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		<title>By: miketuritzin</title>
		<link>http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/just-how-special-is-an-elite-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2112</link>
		<dc:creator>miketuritzin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/?p=735#comment-2112</guid>
		<description>Zuzka, I think you&#039;re drastically misreading my original article.

In no way do I mean to imply that it&#039;s bad to work in the professions, work at a corporation, or stay in academia. You seem think I am saying that. I&#039;m not.

My point is that elite college grads, as a rule, have an overly lofty opinion of the importance of their education. An elite education is great for some things (see above) but not-so-great for others. (And the realm for which one is not-so-great is pretty vast.)

The four points I listed (at the bottom) are meant as tendencies, not as unwavering laws of the universe. I, for example, have felt the pressure to put my degree to use. (I don&#039;t necessarily mean in some very literal way, but at least to get a job that you&#039;d get only with a degree.) Right now I&#039;m not, but that doesn&#039;t mean I haven&#039;t felt that pressure. I suspect that the vast majority of elite college grads do. Do you doubt that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zuzka, I think you&#8217;re drastically misreading my original article.</p>
<p>In no way do I mean to imply that it&#8217;s bad to work in the professions, work at a corporation, or stay in academia. You seem think I am saying that. I&#8217;m not.</p>
<p>My point is that elite college grads, as a rule, have an overly lofty opinion of the importance of their education. An elite education is great for some things (see above) but not-so-great for others. (And the realm for which one is not-so-great is pretty vast.)</p>
<p>The four points I listed (at the bottom) are meant as tendencies, not as unwavering laws of the universe. I, for example, have felt the pressure to put my degree to use. (I don&#8217;t necessarily mean in some very literal way, but at least to get a job that you&#8217;d get only with a degree.) Right now I&#8217;m not, but that doesn&#8217;t mean I haven&#8217;t felt that pressure. I suspect that the vast majority of elite college grads do. Do you doubt that?</p>
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		<title>By: zuzf</title>
		<link>http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/just-how-special-is-an-elite-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2110</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/?p=735#comment-2110</guid>
		<description>My main point was that if most people I know don&#039;t fit the &quot;elite grads in general&quot; stereotype, something might be wrong with the stereotype. 

As for points about further education, I&#039;m confused - do we not need people to study to be doctors and other kinds of specialists? Either way, I don&#039;t think graduate school or lack thereof has much to do with your 4 main points, which I was disputing by the example of people around me that I see: 

(1) doing things that levergage their having gone to the elite institution (mostly through friend and professional networks)
(2) taking risks
(3) not putting their degrees to use
(4) actually, I&#039;m not sure I understood point 4. what does living free of the institution look like and what does being a slave to it look like?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My main point was that if most people I know don&#8217;t fit the &#8220;elite grads in general&#8221; stereotype, something might be wrong with the stereotype. </p>
<p>As for points about further education, I&#8217;m confused &#8211; do we not need people to study to be doctors and other kinds of specialists? Either way, I don&#8217;t think graduate school or lack thereof has much to do with your 4 main points, which I was disputing by the example of people around me that I see: </p>
<p>(1) doing things that levergage their having gone to the elite institution (mostly through friend and professional networks)<br />
(2) taking risks<br />
(3) not putting their degrees to use<br />
(4) actually, I&#8217;m not sure I understood point 4. what does living free of the institution look like and what does being a slave to it look like?</p>
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		<title>By: am</title>
		<link>http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/just-how-special-is-an-elite-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2080</link>
		<dc:creator>am</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/?p=735#comment-2080</guid>
		<description>College in this country has become, for better or worse, so much more than an education.  It&#039;s really a whole lifestyle, a highly contrived and almost scripted &#039;rite of passage.&#039;  As you point out universities, especially smaller ones, go to great lengths not only to emphasize the values of their degrees but also to create a fictional sense of community (that nevertheless has efficacy because people believe in it).  I was just at my fifth year college reunion and they handed out a list of everyone from my year who had donated to the school.  About 1/3 of our class was on it, which I found astonishing.  These working at their first jobs, or pursuing graduate degrees, or volunteering abroad etc, who still found it worthwhile to donate money not to some charity but their alma mater.  

You also rightly point out the way some people tend to get caught up not just in institutions but in a notion of career success that is not their own.  In fact this may include the very notion of having a *career* itself.  That there are stakes and consequences and dramatic life &#039;meanings&#039; for everything we do which must fit into some largely pre-determined narrative.  I guess I say this because I went to school with lots of creative but not particularly ambitious people who maybe now feel more of a pressure at times to be conventionally successful.  And by the way, in this line of thinking, convention would also to expand to such things as callings, entrepreneurship, and school-studying both concrete and abstract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>College in this country has become, for better or worse, so much more than an education.  It&#8217;s really a whole lifestyle, a highly contrived and almost scripted &#8216;rite of passage.&#8217;  As you point out universities, especially smaller ones, go to great lengths not only to emphasize the values of their degrees but also to create a fictional sense of community (that nevertheless has efficacy because people believe in it).  I was just at my fifth year college reunion and they handed out a list of everyone from my year who had donated to the school.  About 1/3 of our class was on it, which I found astonishing.  These working at their first jobs, or pursuing graduate degrees, or volunteering abroad etc, who still found it worthwhile to donate money not to some charity but their alma mater.  </p>
<p>You also rightly point out the way some people tend to get caught up not just in institutions but in a notion of career success that is not their own.  In fact this may include the very notion of having a *career* itself.  That there are stakes and consequences and dramatic life &#8216;meanings&#8217; for everything we do which must fit into some largely pre-determined narrative.  I guess I say this because I went to school with lots of creative but not particularly ambitious people who maybe now feel more of a pressure at times to be conventionally successful.  And by the way, in this line of thinking, convention would also to expand to such things as callings, entrepreneurship, and school-studying both concrete and abstract.</p>
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		<title>By: miketuritzin</title>
		<link>http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/just-how-special-is-an-elite-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2044</link>
		<dc:creator>miketuritzin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/?p=735#comment-2044</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your thoughts. Let&#039;s see...

First of all, I&#039;m not talking about your friends; I&#039;m talking about elite university grads in general. Certainly some groups will behave differently than others!

Second, I didn&#039;t mean to imply that you can&#039;t do &quot;cool and creative&quot; things inside the elite institution bubble. Certainly you can, and many people do.

Third, if someone is back in school, they are (generally) still within the bubble. Whether they&#039;re studying something concrete or not is irrelevant.

I agree that entrepreneurship is a big exception -- particularly for Stanford grads -- so good point there.

I have no idea what kind of role liberal arts education plays in the life choices of most college grads, but I doubt personally that it has done much for me -- after all, my education wasn&#039;t very liberal-artsy in the first place!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughts. Let&#8217;s see&#8230;</p>
<p>First of all, I&#8217;m not talking about your friends; I&#8217;m talking about elite university grads in general. Certainly some groups will behave differently than others!</p>
<p>Second, I didn&#8217;t mean to imply that you can&#8217;t do &#8220;cool and creative&#8221; things inside the elite institution bubble. Certainly you can, and many people do.</p>
<p>Third, if someone is back in school, they are (generally) still within the bubble. Whether they&#8217;re studying something concrete or not is irrelevant.</p>
<p>I agree that entrepreneurship is a big exception &#8212; particularly for Stanford grads &#8212; so good point there.</p>
<p>I have no idea what kind of role liberal arts education plays in the life choices of most college grads, but I doubt personally that it has done much for me &#8212; after all, my education wasn&#8217;t very liberal-artsy in the first place!</p>
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		<title>By: zuzf</title>
		<link>http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/just-how-special-is-an-elite-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2042</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/?p=735#comment-2042</guid>
		<description>You make some interesting points, but the majority of my friends from the elite institution you and I went to are not in the feeder industries you mention, or sometimes not even employed at all. Most of my friends are doing all sorts of cool and creative things, following their callings, being entrepreneurial, or back in school to study something very concrete. You might say that they&#039;re doing this *despite* their elite degree, but I&#039;m going to play devil&#039;s advocate and put forth a hypothesis that the liberal arts education actually played a strong role in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make some interesting points, but the majority of my friends from the elite institution you and I went to are not in the feeder industries you mention, or sometimes not even employed at all. Most of my friends are doing all sorts of cool and creative things, following their callings, being entrepreneurial, or back in school to study something very concrete. You might say that they&#8217;re doing this *despite* their elite degree, but I&#8217;m going to play devil&#8217;s advocate and put forth a hypothesis that the liberal arts education actually played a strong role in it.</p>
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